Provos, Andronicus & Tarchos, Martyrs of Tarsus
I thought this opinion & prose - posted on an Orthodox forum - seemed valid.
New calendar....
then,
women deacons...
then,
homosexual priests...
then,
openly, shamelessly preaching satanism in Church
then,
end of the world.
Greece doesn't exist anymore, forget about it.
8 Comments:
I may not have understood the prose, but if it's saying what I think it's saying, these are my thoughts:
Beware of the Old Calendar mindset. Some old calendarists (these are different from those who happen to still be on the old calendar such as Russia) have chosen schism in reaction to a calendar that was thoughtfully developed by an Orthodox council in order to more fully fulfill the original intent of the ecumenical council that set up the rules for determining the date of Pascha. Women deacons were mentioned in the Bible and existed for the 1st 1000 years of Christendom (which means they predated the New Calendar). I don't follow the logic of the rest of the sequence...it seems to say that obvious sin and satanism will follow any change in practice. Jesus broke the social and religious norms by associating with women, did he start us down the slippery slope by not upholding the status quo? Orthodox means "right belief", not "never changing any practice" The church has given us a way to adjust practices that are not dogma--ecumenical councils.
Laurie O.
5:42 PM
Laurie,
Good thoughts.
in order to more fully fulfill the original intent of the ecumenical council that set up the rules for determining the date of Pascha.This reminds me of Fr. Schmemman's quote: The Church changes only to remain the same.
The church has given us a way to adjust practices that are not dogma--ecumenical councils.You may have some difficulty with that one on reaching the purposefully old calendarists, I'm guessing. The council that laid down the 'new calendar' doesn't seem ecumenical at this point, only because the entire body has not accepted it. It may become ecumenical in the future, however.
I asked my priest about this calendar business (we're on the new) and he's confident we're not heretics for being on the new calendar. I guess the argument could be made either way, depending on one's POV, but I try and be obedient to my priest and bishop, so I just stay out of the debate. I have a hard enough time focusing on my own sins; I'll leave the politics to the hierarchs. ;)
6:55 AM
My intention in posting this bit was to offer an example of the varied opinions that exist among the faithful; some of which – in this particular case - aren’t necessarily mine.
In any event…
Thanks for the counsel Mrs. “O”.
With regards to the calendar, the Julian Calendar isn’t a Christian calendar. It’s actually pagan. When Julius Caesar installed it in 46 BC, it was intended for general civil use in the Roman Empire and remained until the First Ecumenical Synod. Christianity appropriated the Julian Calendar for ecclesiastical use by linking it to the Jewish Calendar in the establishment of a uniform calculation of Pascha, as you rightly state.
The Paschalion introduced a universal time-reckoning scheme, the Great Indiction - or Cycle from the Creation of the World - and remains to this day as the basis of all service books of the Orthodox Church. The Services, immutably determined by the Church Calendar, consist of two concurrent cycles: the immovable cycle of Feasts, those which are fixed to a specific calendar date, and the movable cycle of Feasts, those which are dependent on the Feast of the Resurrection, the date of which is variable. This all changed as a result of the calendar reform and in my ignorant opinion makes no sense…unless of course you’re overly concerned about being able to Easter egg hunt with the Roman Catholics.
I’m familiar with St. Phoebe (Romans 16: 1) and her role from with Holy Scripture. My wife’s patron – St. Irene of Chrysovalantou – also was a deaconess. There are numerous renowned saints who held the office – Sts. Macrina, Apollonia of Alexandria, Gorgonia, Justina, Tatiana (Mrs. Whittamore’s patron), Xenia of Rome to name a hallowed few.
I think the role of the female Diaconate is one that can still be valid today. There is a need for a women’s perspective with regards to educating in the Church. Assisting female candidates for baptism, anointing with oil at the baptism, visiting and caring for the sick, helping the poor.
The use of women deacons may be attributed to further “reforms” in ecclesiastical policy. We no longer baptize people completely naked. We no longer dismiss catechumens – a feature left for the women deacons to release the women faithful. We no longer – at least in our Archdiocese - segregate the women from the men, so keeping general order in the women's section of the church is no longer a necessity.
8:39 AM
John,
I'm relieved that the opinion is not yours..
As for the calendar, my understanding is that the 1st ecumenical counsel actually changed the Julian calendar because it was inaccurate and made it more scientific. They moved the vernal equinox up 3 days because the calendar had slipped. They, therefore, set a precedent for correcting the calendar. They were most concerned with setting a uniform date for Easter since there were many different practices. The rules were as follows:
1) Pascha was always to be celebrated on a Sunday.
2) That Sunday must be the 1st Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox and if that full moon was on a Sunday, then Pascha would be celebrated on the following Sunday.
3) Pascha must not fall on Passover. This was in order to differentiate themselves from Judaism, not to link themselves with it.
Anyway when the Romans unilaterally changed to the Gregorian Calendar in the 15th century, the Orthodox did not blindly follow the change. But, over the years it was becoming increasingly clear that the calendar was slipping. By the 20th century, the original calendar approved by the 1st ecumenical council was off by 13 days. If this continued, we would end up celebrating Pascha in the winter time (which has some problems symbolically). So, in 1923 an Orthodox conference met (Russia could not attend because of the Bolshevik revolution) and followed the precedent set by the 1st ecumenical council and corrected the calendar. 13 days were dropped and a new method of calculating the yearly cycle was adopted. In order to promote unity and especially not to leave the Slavic churches out, however, it was decided to use the old calendar for determining the vernal equinox and therefore Pascha. (Russia, ended up fixing the calendar so it didn't slip, but did not drop the 13 days) That is why our fixed dates are celebrated on different days. Still, the Old Calendarists feel that the calendar is sacred and almost dogma and chose to create schism. They prefer the Calendar to church unity.
I agree with your opinion on the female diaconate. I feel it is an area that needs much dialog. I only hope and pray that if the Church would decide to resume the practice of ordaining women as deacons, that those who did not agree would not choose schism.
I guess my biggest objection to the opinion that was expressed in the original post is the lack of faith in the Church herself to make changes in the tradition (notice little 't') without slipping into heresy or worse (Satanism?)
Laurie.
11:09 AM
If this continued, we would end up celebrating Pascha in the winter time. Pascha occurs in autumn in the Southern Hemisphere already. :-)
All calendars are intrinsically astronomically imprecise (can I use all those words together like that?).
By maintaining the Paschalion while changing the fixed calendar, the Typicon goes out the window. The Apostles’ fast is shortened and even ends before it begins in certain years! In using the "Revised Julian Calendar," the date of Pascha will gradually slip forward into the fixed year, so that Pascha (and all moveable feasts) will eventually coincide with the Feasts of Sts. Peter and Paul, the Transfiguration, the Dormition, and even - eventually…about thirty-five thousand years - the Nativity. :-) Astronomers can’t even use the Gregorian calendar for their calculations as it is missing the ten days that were "skipped" in 1583.
An argument for using the calendar the Bishop says you should is obedience, and Lord knows I for one could stand to occupy that space for a while.
Of course when you hear of jurisdictions allowing individual parishes to vote and choose which calendar they wish to use, it’s a good example of Hierarchs abrogating their authority to lead and to teach. Thus, what good are the intentions of our obedience?
I think some of the bad-taste and/or confusion I have over calendar issues, stem from what I view as being the first phase of bad ecumenism…
Patriarch Meletios IV (Metaxakis) of Constantinople, the architect of calendar reform (from a Hierarchical position) and conveyer of the “Pan-Orthodox Congress” of 1923 (where all present reject the proposal for a “new calendar”) was perfectly clear about his reason for this innovation: to achieve unity with other Christians.
This is the same man to recognize the validity of Anglican Orders, was himself a devoted and self-avowed Freemason, recognized the "Living Church" in Russia and its deposition of Patriarch Tikhon, sought the easing of restrictions for fasting periods, the shortening of services, permission for clergy to remarry, and was an advocate of civil dress for clergy. While being deposed for “uncanonical behavior” as Archbishop of Athens, he was “uncanonically” enthroned to the Patriarchate.
Really though…at the end of the day, my true point of view falls in line with Jim’s - so I just stay out of the debate. I have a hard enough time focusing on my own sins; I'll leave the politics to the hierarchs.
12:40 PM
John,
I hadn't thought about the Southern Hemisphere--you're right, that argument doesn't fly too well. I'm still glad Pascha occurs in the springtime for us.
I'm confused--are you telling me that the Pan-Orthodox conference of 1923 rejected a new calendar? I thought that was when the new calendar was adopted for those who had taken part.
(This is an area of great interest for me--not so I can enter the debate, but so that I can understand how we got to where we are. In fact, I would love to see any info you may have on it.)
Laurie.
1:20 PM
I'm still glad Pascha occurs in the springtime for us. He-he…me too.
The State Church of Greece accepted the change while Pat. Damianos of Jerusalem, Pat. Gregory of Antioch, Pat. Demetrios of Serbia and Patriarch Photios of Alexandria all send written reprimands to Pat. Meletios for the calendar change. St. Tikhon sends nothing out from the MP as his activities are being “restricted”.
Your interest in this area stems from the very same interest I have for it…to understand how we got to where we are.Among the profuse amount of material concerning this issue, here’s some stuff:
Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras’1967 Epistle
Orthodox Christian Witness Nov12/25 1984, vol. XVIII, no. 12
The First Sorrowful Epistle: Met. Philaret, Russian Church Abroad, 14/27July 1969
“The Balamand Statement”, In Eastern Churches Journal Vol. 1, No. 1
3:29 PM
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11:17 PM
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